Forty years later, the chassis similarity is not lost on Nova enthusiasts, and Novas are increasingly tasked to not only run down the dragstrip, but around cones or a road course. Since our Nova project is starting with sheetmetal and not much else, we will spend more time putting it back together than taking it apart. As Detroit Speed Inc.

crossmember vs subframe

DSE had mini-tubbed our Nova, it was only natural to call them when it came time to upgrade our subframe with all new suspension, steering, and braking components.

Starting with nothing, our grocery list of parts started to add up quickly, and before long the total was pushing into a good percentage of the cost of a DSE subframe. We were pushed over the edge when we asked how the Nova would compare to a fifth-gen Camaro with equal power levels.

While the additional cost of an entire subframe is a serious investment, it offers very serious returns in offsetting the cost and time involved in refurbishing the original, building in LSx integration, eliminating the need for some parts like hubs, supercar geometry specs, and upgrading the visual aspects that would not be attainable even on a highly modified stock subframe.

2006 Mitsubishi Outlander front subframe replacement

As it would never be easier, we took the plunge and opted for the DSE subframe. For the purpose of this article, we also took the opportunity to pay a visit to DSE and have it assembled. We also upgraded the worn-out column shift steering column with a precise and good-looking piece from ididit.

In the case of our Nova, we are going to do a bit of fabrication and fender flaring to fit a mm tire on a 9. Is the added work worth it for 10mm more tire? If you choose bare metal, DSE will coat all metal surfaces with a corrosion-resistant coating, which is easily cleaned off with lacquer thinner.

The DSE subframe was designed and modeled in Solidworks with a clean sheet approach allowing it to mount up to a inch-wide wheel with a mm tire while maintaining a degree turning angle. The hydroformed framerail starts out as the pre-bent tube on the leftwhich ultimately becomes the formed and laser cut part on the right.

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During the hydroforming process, the tube is clamped into tooling, and liquid at high pressure essentially pushes the tube outward until it meets the tooling at the same time, which allows the tube to shorten, which keeps the walls from stretching. Hydroforming also allows for lighter weight than a stamping of comparable stiffness, and complex shapes can be achieved with consistent wall thickness.

Notice how the DSE framerail transitions from a vertical orientation to horizontal at the rear of the rail. The tubular upper control arm has a radically different ball joint interface than the stamped-steel part it replaces, as the ball joint is now located on the top of the spindle entering the control arm through its machined steel ball joint socket.

The arms themselves are fully TIG-welded and gusseted. DSE co-owner Kyle Tucker inspects upper ball joint pockets as they drop out of the Haas machining center like a magical suspension gumball machine. With its 1. Rubber bushings are replaced with greasable, Delrin bushings and thrust washers, eliminating the changes in geometry and non-linear spring rates resulting from the rubber bushing trying to handle thrust, radial loads, and isolation.

Even a part seemingly as boring as the bumpstops were scrutinized, resulting in a custom design timed with suspension travel to limit the jounce travel in a controlled way.

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We chose the DSE non-adjustable coilover for its proven performance and simplicity. Double-adjustable and remote reservoir double-adjustables are available as well. All offer up to 1. The springs are all supplied with a rate card, as they are percent dyno tested. The coilovers also have a detent on the adjustment ring, allowing precise and repeatable changes in ride height. C6 brakes can be directly bolted on with no additional cost for hubs as they are already installed.

Here, raw DSE steering arms forged from steel in America awaits finish machining. The splined sway bar assembly is more efficient than its OEM counterpart top as it swaps polyurethane bushings for Delrin bearings and is tightly constrained by the subframe crossmember. The splined bar is actuated by the steel arms, which are much stiffer than the sway bar, ensuring all the twisting happens in the sway bar—not in the compression of sway bar bushings.Forums New posts Search forums.

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crossmember vs subframe

For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Joined Jun 21, Messages 2, I really want to keep my EJ's subframe.

Bottom Clearance? What Motor Mounts either way? Joined Jul 6, Messages 3, Which axles - depends on your usage and cost, when I did my swap I did not know about the combination of oem from different cars, Im guessing it would not be up to track abuse anyway, I run DSS 2.

Not many headers work with abs, not sure on the fitment on your car, again much is down to how much you want to spend, so many to choose from, DC Sports is low down, works ok, as in still makes decent power but has a 2" collector, and the chance of flexi failure is high, if you go custom make sure it is from a proven builder. I run Hassport EKK2 mounts, the sump does sit low, but some clearance issues under the hood, there is a post in this section with the pictures.

I have the DC2 subframe, not sure on the thickness issue, I would guess they are the same as EK9, if any parts are inferior I have not noticed any difference handling wise on track. Even losing the small brace gearbox brace? Joined Jan 3, Messages The K Series Source.

Only reason that I want to keep my Ek subframe is that I live in Cali. If the CHP pop my hood I would have to take it in for inspection. Which requires me to put my D16Y8 back in. Because California does not Bar'd legal Kswaps!! I don't want the hassel of swapping Subframes back n' forth. So anyone here have the EKK1 Kswap here?No a cross member is a strengthening beam to give the body or chassis rails torsional strength and is either welded or reduced thread bolted.

A sub frame is used to either support the engine on a usualy front wheel drive car or is used as a isolating frame for the rear suspension radius arms The sub frame isolates the body from vibration and is mounted on rubber mounted blocks.

A sub frame would be the top 2 cross members from one end, and the side pieces, cut off to make an oblong frame. The 2 side pieces are cut from the longer part of the ladder down to next cross member, and the sub frame is bolted back onto the ladder. A performance up-grade part for Mustangs comes to mind called a K-member by some which bolts on to the front sub frame. The part is actually a cross member. Answer Save. Favourite answer.

Is a crossmember the same as a subframe in relation to suspension?

ANDY Lv 7. Hello No If you imagine a ladder on the floor as in ladder frame chassis each rung is a cross member. Andy C. Subframe Crossmember. Old Man Dirt Lv 7.

First-Gen Camaro Front Clips

Not always. A sub frame should include the cross member. But a cross member is not always the sub-frame. What do you think of the answers? You can sign in to give your opinion on the answer.

crossmember vs subframe

Chev M Lv 4. Still have questions? Get answers by asking now.As you've already read earlier in this issue, building a brand new '60s musclecar is now possible, and we're not just talking about sheetmetal.

Thanks to the surge in musclecar popularity, especially with the Camaro and Mustang, you can build a brand-new '69 Camaro without using a single 'vintage part.

Most fit similar-vintage Firebirds and Novas as well as the Camaro. Nearly all accept stock sheetmetal, bumpers, and radiators.

We Upgrade the Subframe of a 1967-1974 Nova

Just about everyone supports the big- and small-block Chevy and late GM LS-series motors; a few have or will soon have real Pontiac mounts. But what's really trick is the latest OEM and racing suspension and design technology available in some of the units that's capable of delivering ride and handling only dreamed of back in the '60s.

Heidt's Hot Rod Shop Starting out fabricating Mustang II-style crossmembers in a home garage back inHeidt's has since grown into one of the industry's leading custom street rod and musclecar chassis and suspension manufacturers. Its new first-gen Camaro subframe is not just a warmed-over street rod suspension-the new Pro-G third-generation setup is said to be purpose-designed for the Camaro as a true race car-style suspension with race car geometry.

What models are covered? What engines fit? Chevy big- and small-block, GM LS-series uses parts-store rubbers. What do you get? Subframe with full suspension, including tubular A-arms, 2-inch dropped spindles, inch rotors with GM calipers, Heidt's billet position rebound adjustable coilovers, manual rack-and-pinion steering. Why should I buy it? We have the stiffest, most flex-resistant frame available with two not one front crossmembers. How much does it cost? Scott's Hotrods Owner Justin Padfield started Scott's HotRods to build high-end street rods, but has since branched out into mail-order and on-line parts for rods and street trucks.

He offers a direct bolt-on subframe for first-gen Camaros and Firebirds, and a partial clip for ''78 second-gen F-cars. Most off-the-shelf headers fit. Chevy big- and small-block, LS-series, custom apps on special order.

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What extras are available? Polished stainless steel A-arms, polished billet spindles, Wilwood brakes with to inch rotors and four- to six-piston calipers, polished steering racks, antisway bar polished stainless availablepolished stainless steel tie-rod ends, powdercoating, stock spindles, coilovers, airbags, Shockwaves, mechanical clutch linkage bracket, custom trans crossmembers, ears to accept stock trans crossmembers. The rod ends are CNC-machined.

We can accommodate custom track widths, ride heights, and otherwise tailor the clip to specific customer needs. All parts have a lifetime guarantee. We are a full-service rod shop: We build what we sell and sell what we make.A subframe is a structural component of a vehicle, such as an automobile or an aircraftthat uses a discrete, separate structure within a larger body-on-frame or unit body to carry certain components, such as the enginedrivetrain, or suspension.

When bolted, it is sometimes equipped with rubber bushings or springs to dampen vibration. The principal purposes of using a subframe are, to spread high chassis loads over a wide area of relatively thin sheet metal of a monocoque body shell, and to isolate vibrations and harshness from the rest of the body. For example, in an automobile with its powertrain contained in a subframe, forces generated by the engine and transmission can be damped enough that they will not disturb passengers.

As a natural development from a car with a full chassis, separate front and rear subframes are used in modern vehicles to reduce the overall weight and cost. In addition a subframe yields benefits to production in that subassemblies can be made which can be introduced to the main bodyshell when required on an automated line.

A subframe is usually made of pressed steel panels that are much thicker than bodyshell panels, which are welded or spot welded together. The use of hydroformed tubes may also be used. The revolutionary monocoque transverse engined front wheel drive Austin Minithat set the template for modern front wheel drive cars, used front and rear subframes to provide accurate road wheel control while using a stiff lightweight body.

The subframe saw regular production in the s and s General Motors X platform and F platform bodies and the M platform vans AstroSafari. Subframes are prone to misalignment, which can cause vibration and alignment issues in the suspension and steering components.

Misalignment is caused by space between the chassis-subframe mounting bolts and the mounting hole. There are a number of companies in the automotive aftermarket that offer solutions for the subframe misalignment and movement issue, including TyrolSport of the US and Spoon Sports of Japan.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. This article does not cite any sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. Automotive design. Part of a series of articles on cars.

SubFrame Choices for EK/EJ

Daytime running lamp Headlamp sealed beam high-intensity discharge lamp Hidden headlamps Turn signals trafficators Rear position lamps Stop lamps Reversing lamps Safety reflector retroreflector. Identification number Theft. Category Commons Portal. Categories : Automotive chassis types Auto parts Structural system Structural engineering Automotive part stubs.My car has had a recall on it for corrosion to the front cross member. Last year, according to the mechanic's invoice, I had my car's sub-frame replaced.

Is the cross-member the same thing as my car's sub frame? Is it one part of the sub frame? Any help would be appreciated. I do not know cars too well. Your vehicle is constructed as a "unibody". Unibodies in general will have bolt on members, typically in the front and rear, that are referred to as cross-members or subframes.

A sub frame structurally includes "cross-members" but a cross member itself is not usually a sub-frame. That is, a sub-frame is typically a larger piece and one that will often be a cradle for the engine as well as provide attachment points for the suspension.

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In practical terms, if the part that was installed on your vehicle is attached to the control arms on your vehicle that IS the part the cross member that is the target of the Mitsubishi recall. In your circumstance, the mechanic appears to have used the terms cross member and sub-frame interchangeably because that cross member in the front of your vehicle, to which the control arms are bolted, is the only major bolt on frame component in the front of your vehicle.

If you are covered in one of those states, there were refund instructions in the notification letter to get reimbursed if you already had the repairs performed at your expense you appear to have had the repairs performed. If you have questions, please contact Mitsubishi at Tel: and ask about recall number SR Alternatively, if you have further questions or concerns, do not hesitate to re-contact YourMechanic as we are always here to help you.

Please keep YourMechanic in mind for future repairs, maintenance and advice. Q: Is a front cross member a part of my car's subframe? My car has miles. My car has an automatic transmission. Kevin Gainer Automotive Mechanic. Thank Kevin. Was this answer helpful? Thank you for your feedback! Sorry about that. Why wasn't this information helpful? The statements expressed above are only for informational purposes and should be independently verified.The Jalopy Journal.

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Privacy Policy. Log in or Sign up. Atomic Industries www. Register now to get rid of these ads! The H. In general terms, can a bolt on subframe be as strong and reliable as a welded subframe? I really like the idea of being able to unbolt the whole front end to drop it out if need be.

It seems to me like the Chevy truck clips post's were all bolted on I think? MattilacAug 24, They still recommend welding bolt in kits. Wicked50Aug 24, Unless, of course, you're installing an all-aluminum subframe, such as the post Crown Vic Police Interceptor front suspension Magic for the wider pickups There's a thread Atwater MikeAug 24, I thought ' Chevy trucks were all bolted in?

I know the aftermarket Porterbuilt dropmembers that the C10 guys love so much are also bolt in Just thinking. There were a fair number of OEM's that used a bolted in X-member. JagChevy,53 Vette. Just a matter of correct design to take a bolt in. JohnEvansAug 25, I just want to play the devil's advocate here and ask, " ever been on a bridge that was welded together? How about a pre composite airliner I've installed both front ends, and have not got a complaint about either I personally think the welded vs.

I've always used welded in crossmembers but I have a 40 Ford in the shop right now that the owner installed a Chassis Engineering Bolt in Mustang II kit. Got to admit, it looks preety good and I don't see any problem with it, stought enough I don't see it moving any. I think I'd rather see it then a weld on that was put in with substandard welding, something you see too often with "homebuilts".

I have seen the bolt in ones on some carsbut I really prefer to weld them in to get the most strength out of themunless you just have them for show and no really heavy ground pounding from a high torque engine! Just my 2 cents.

Retro Jim. Retro JimAug 25,


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